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Raldo
#21 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2013 11:09:09 AM(UTC)
Raldo


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Originally Posted by: Truvy Go to Quoted Post
@ Raldo The last range of data you provided towards the end, it looks like you verified a step of 7 gathering to reach the next level, then were able to show that steps of MORE than that appears possible. How confident do you feel in those results?

Nearly all of my steps require +7 gathering to hit a new level; only one of my steps was different with a +8 requirement. I've been wondering why you were saying +6 so much when my data was showing +7.

For example, the step that is from 234~240. There are 7 numbers in that spread.

When I found that one step that took me +8 to reach, I made sure to double-back on that step and the adjacent steps to re-confirm that it was correct, so I'm very confident in the results. I found it very odd that the step following it only took +7 again though, since I expected it to hit +8 at some point and stay at +8.

Edited by user Monday, July 15, 2013 11:10:57 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Truvy
#22 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2013 11:44:05 AM(UTC)
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yeah I was using 6 as the range between not counting the actual first number so you are correct.

Also yeah its odd that it was 7, then 8, then back to 7 then more again...This is part of why I'm trying to extrapolate simply the 'step' pattern and then we can fill in the step range laters.

What I'm missing (and what would help) are some screenshots of LOW gathering at lower ilvls...the problem that I'm coming up with (perhaps its not a problem but simply how it is)is that to extrapolate this data out that far means LOTS of little steps in the begining...which might be how it is in truth, but i need lower gathering with lower ilevels to confirm and find out the number of steps.

Lastly...past ilvl 45 the data gets wonky according to Orophin's results. A good example is ilvl 50

@138 00%
@163 18%
@199 48%

I'll post what i mean here soon so others can look at it, perhaps there is something fundamental I'm just not seeing/considering.

(Also i hope all these nodes were on ones that didn't have a bonus to gathering % :p)
Orophin
#23 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2013 11:55:51 AM(UTC)
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I made sure to only collect data from nodes that had yield +1 or no bonus at all.

I think you guys are onto something with the stepping. My gathering percentages fell in line with my Gathering stat for the numbers Raldo posted. The data just gets really weird once you start taking off armor.

Honestly I think I misinterpreted the entire point of this thread until I re-read stuff.

Edit: Trying to figure out how to correlate the numbers. I matched mine and Raldo's numbers and here's what I have:

LV35 96%
LV36***** 94% ***** 2% difference
LV37***** 93% ***** 1% difference
LV38***** 91% ? ***** 2% difference
LV39***** 89% ? ***** 2% difference
LV40***** 87% ***** 2% difference
LV41***** 86% ***** 1% difference
LV42***** 84% ***** 2% difference
LV43***** 82% ***** 2% difference
LV44***** 80% ***** 2% difference
LV45***** 79% ***** 1% difference
LV46***** 76% ***** 3% difference
LV47***** 73% ***** 3% difference
LV48***** 70 or 71% ***** 2 - 3% difference
LV49***** 68% ***** 2 - 3% difference
LV50***** 65% ***** 3% difference

This is all based on the 241-247 tier.

Edited by user Monday, July 15, 2013 12:12:46 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Truvy
#24 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2013 12:06:32 PM(UTC)
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Not at all Orophin I think you are quite right and the data isn't as wierd as you think.

https://docs.google.com/...Rjhsbms/edit?usp=sharing

This is what I've got so far...Up top in purple you'll see the confirmed Gathering level. There is a line now above that which will simply be labled the STEP # once i get it extrapolated further.

There appears to be benchmarks in here as well as the step. You'll notice the BLUE is numbers from Orophin, the Green from Raldo. They line up GREAT! Data gets odd at ilvl 45 and above, and also gets odd (a benchmark/shift) at a variety of ilvels further down the step chain...starts counting by 3 .....
Orophin
#25 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2013 12:18:04 PM(UTC)
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Oh, that's starting to shape up pretty nicely! And yeah, I think 45+ is a totally different beast. It looks like one of the two numbers in the 45+ range have to be a 2% difference, but otherwise 3% seems to be holding up very well.

Edit: Just based on the earlier pattern of 2-2-2-1, 2-2-2-1, the pattern for 45-50 might be 3-3-3-2, 3.

Edited by user Monday, July 15, 2013 12:21:37 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Raldo
#26 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2013 12:34:07 PM(UTC)
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Am I missing something? The spreadsheet that link leads to, for me, doesn't show anything green or purple, and has no labels aside from 'iLvl'...?
Orophin
#27 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2013 12:35:12 PM(UTC)
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Personally I only see the data for 139 gathering, but I imagine she's working on it offline perhaps.
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Truvy
#28 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2013 1:40:48 PM(UTC)
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Okies UPDATE: https://docs.google.com/...VXZydGs/edit?usp=sharing

You have to download the file and open in Excel to see all of it...Yes ive been working it offline and I'll convert it to a online doc once I get more confirmation its looking more right


The color of font relates to the incremental increase of the success percentage:
RED = Increase by 6 per step
ORANGE = Increase by 3 per step
BLUE = Increase by {2,2,2,1} repeating each step

I also speculate that class level will play a roll in this...that is to say that a R30's % increases would be different than a R50's. Maybe not, but until phase 4 pops open i can't test it...and since Fishing was my R50 gathering I cant test that till then (even then fishing might be different than BOT and MIN)

There are hard lines after ilvl 45...as 46 and 47 seem to share an offset of 1 to level 45 and then follow the same increase pattern. There was no confirmed data on 48 so Not sure about that yet...working on 49 and 50.
Truvy
#29 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2013 1:46:18 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Orophin Go to Quoted Post
Anyone want to play fill in the blanks?

https://docs.google.com/...mVEVXRqUVcwOEo3Qmc#gid=0

I made it to where anyone can edit it. If you could, pick a color for your edits so I can compare them against the original text.


Edit: I also realize there's a number missing in there between 141 and 143. I just don't know where it belongs but in the grand scheme of things I don't think it matters.


I don't believe the Gathering step will be the same amount of gathering. It will likely vary here and there. I've update the spreedsheet I've posted to account more for the step itself than the actual gathering number (which can be populated/tested laters).

In addition the starting point (as of phase 3) is 22 (weathered tool) adds 22 to gathering and seems to me to be the lowest you could possibly be.
Truvy
#30 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2013 1:53:30 PM(UTC)
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What I wouldn't kill for a naked level 50 holding a weathered tool looking at a normal level 5 node showing the ilvl 1 crystals being 73%....would tie this all together NOICE!
Orophin
#31 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2013 1:55:17 PM(UTC)
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Well the pattern definitely seems to hold. If you forecast it out, it'd take somewhere around high 360s Gathering to get 100% on level 50 nodes. I don't think it's possible to reach this number with the best equipment and materia, but we'll have to see what the Gathering AF armor has to offer.

I think if anything materia should be pumped into perception to help increase the HQ rate.

Speaking of HQ rate...anyone wanna chomp at the bit on that one? I have a little bit of data you can try to guess at. :P
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Truvy
#32 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2013 2:01:38 PM(UTC)
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Yeah speaking about stat caps...each ilvl piece of gear has its own cap for each slot...So with capped Gathering at the highest ilvl piece of gear for each slot who knows what the max will become.

Yes at some point HQ will be more important for sure...espically since we can boost any node +50% with skills....so I would 'theorycraft' that hitting natural 50% on ilvl 50 items would be good enough, and then cap out with Perception.

HQ percentages might wait a little for me...head is SPINNING from all this crazy math :p
Raldo
#33 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2013 2:10:01 PM(UTC)
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Excluding materia, food, and any new 2.0 items, the highest gathering you can get is 314 (main:luminary/off:militia/body:HQraptorskin/hands:HQraptorskin/legs:HQraptorskin). Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just basing this off the brash assumption that my gear is the best you can get. The only reason I was able to hit 324 was because some random food I had gave me +10 to gathering, so it will hopefully be difficult-ish to hit 100% on iLvl50 items unbuffed.

As far as HQ percentages go, I'm pretty sure they cap at a lowish number. 15%, if I recall correctly. That's before all abilities and/or whisper bonuses, of course.

FYI - Unless something changes before release, you can find out the stats of the gathering "AF" by using some clever filtering. The names and pictures aren't filled in, but you can tell what they are based on the stats.

Edited by user Monday, July 15, 2013 2:22:51 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Orophin
#34 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2013 2:22:05 PM(UTC)
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Yeah, HQ caps at 15%, but at level 50 on a level 50 item, I only had a 1% chance to HQ with 238 perception. A level 40 item with the same perception you'd have about a 10% chance to HQ, so it'd be nice to find some numbers to squeeze out that extra bit of perception needed to hit the cap. It would also be nice to know what is needed for 15% on level 50 items, but I think it's going to be like the Gathering stat and impossible to obtain.

Edited by user Monday, July 15, 2013 2:23:00 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Truvy
#35 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2013 2:32:11 PM(UTC)
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https://docs.google.com/...ybzVaUUE&usp=sharing

Okies I think its as close to done as I can get it until Phase 4 opens up. There was only 1 really odd data point that that was the 1% chance that Orophin found..its highlighted in yellow where it 'seems' like it should be. not sure if there was an offset 1% given or if there was a step in the other direction or what...but its the only 'confirmed' data point that doesn't fit the theory.

Other than that, I think it looks fairly reasonable.....that is till the world opens up and its all completely wrong :p

@Raldo, as for best gear possible...forbidden materia melding will continue to raise your stats until capped for that piece/slot of gear (relative to its item level). My understanding is that the stat will just stop increasing on the gear letting you know you've hit the cap for that slot and ilvel.
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Orophin on 7/15/2013(UTC)
Orophin
#36 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2013 3:11:55 PM(UTC)
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I put together this gathering set on xivdb.com :

http://xivdb.com/?wardrobe/192/Miner-Gear

This looks like the best possible gear, apart from the belt, ear, neck and ring slots being HQ. Rings can be interchanged with MND (for miner) for the nodes that have Whisperer bonuses for that stat instead of STR.

I'm guessing that the gear listed there is going to be the new Miner JSE gear. What's really interesting is that it has materia slots so it may be crafted, like the crafter specific gear. If this is the case, the base stats on that can be even higher, but being that all the pieces but the hands don't have perception, you won't be able to boost perception any higher through materia since stats are considered maxed out on HQ equipment.

Also, thanks for your spreadsheet Truvy, that's really good information.

Edited by user Monday, July 15, 2013 3:14:28 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Raldo
#37 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2013 3:34:03 PM(UTC)
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When not using the stat rings for whisper bonuses, you'd be better off with these (if available) since core stats don't appear to do anything except trigger whisper bonuses.

Ring1: Stormcarrier's Ring (or your GC's equivalent)
Ring2: Crimson Standard Ring (or your GC's equivalent)

The first one is bought with mere company seals (personally confirmed during Phase 3). The second one was an achievement award in 1.0 for doing a large quantity of supply missions for your GC; whether it stays that way in 2.0 remains to be seen.

Edited by user Monday, July 15, 2013 3:37:13 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Raldo
#38 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2013 7:37:04 AM(UTC)
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Since HQ rates were mentioned, I'll post the two screenshots that I have regarding that. Click them to see the full-size image. I meant to post these the day after it was mentioned, but I forgot. Oh well, here they are now!

The first image is me wearing all my normal gathering gear from 1.0.
The second image is after I removed the perception pieces (except the body).




It is worth noting that the node I was testing on had a +HQ chance based on perception, but that should've only taken me up +10%.

From these, it doesn't look like maxing HQ rates will be terribly difficult (though perhaps that's just my gear talking) unless the difference between a lv45 node and lv50 node is huge. I was able to max the HQ rate on even the lv45 items without even trying.

I wish I'd found a lv50 node/item to test on, but I didn't look very hard. For the purposes of Phase 4, could someone point me to where I might find a lv50 botany node? I was testing in Upper La Noscea. Perhaps I should've trekked all the way up to Outer La Noscea.

Edited by user Thursday, July 18, 2013 7:45:21 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Orophin
#39 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2013 8:39:41 AM(UTC)
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I personally haven't run across a level 50 botany node, but I think the Black Shroud would be the best place to start. I don't think there are currently any gathering nodes at all in Outer La Noscea. At least when I was running around looking for Mining and Botany nodes the detection skill wouldn't find any.
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