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I realized this hasn't had an answer.

I don't know the exact times of when it kicks in or when it wears off but here are my experiences with it.

As far as when it kicks in, i can sit in one spot and fish for about an hour before i notice i start geting the "insta fails" after getting a bite. While i do get SP for this, its 1/2 of the amount as you would if you suceeded in bringing it.

There seems to be levels to this too, similar to surplus. There comes a time when you can't reel anything in and go about 1/100 for catches.

Now interestingly, there doesn't seem to be a 'timer' for it wearing off...the second i stop fishing, and wait a bit, say....10 mins, i can then return to fishing and fish for 10 mins before it starts up again.

If this theory holds, then all that's left to do is to find out the timing of it...from starting to X (no fat period) and from Initial Fat - Total Fat. Since you can't go beyond Total Fat, the time from Initial to Total would then become the amount of time you would need to wait to be back at refreshed.

Total Refresh -> Initial Fat = A

Initial Fat -> Total Fat = B

I'm not sure if you just need to wait [B] to become totally refreshed, or if you need to wait [B] + [A] to become totally refreshed.

EXAMPLE:

---

12:00 Totally refreshed
(Gathering)
1:00 Initial Fat Begins (you start getting insta fails)
(Gathering)
2:00 Total Fat Begins (You insta fail everything (1/100))

Now in the above example, 2 hours passed from totally refreshed to Total Fatigue. Its possible that if you just wait 1 hour (stop gathering and switch class <--- I think you have to switch to have the timer start) to become totally refreshed again...but it might take the full 2.

In other words: Fatigue I believe resets at a 1:1 ratio.

Testing of course in in order...but i think this is a good place to start :D

It might reset with the leve reset. You may want to keep track of the leve resets when you do this as well. Those are every 36 hours, right?

Edited by user Thursday, February 17, 2011 12:11:54 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

*UPDATE*

Ok so the official PLAN A is still set for Monday, but I happened to need some fish and knew it was at full reset. Last night I did the following:

8pm PST till 12pm PST

I stopped at 225 sucessful catches (not total fish, just reel ins). For the first 2 and a half hours (little more) it was smooth sailing, then, i hit the fatigue. The magic number 'seems' to be at 200. Literally at like fish 198 i hit the fatigue wall. Went from total sucess rate to near total failure. I took the next hour and a half to get 25 more reel ins over the course of 120 bites. (so 95 insta fails once i got a bite, and 25 reel ins...thats 20%)

I will go back and fish again in a few hours (as leve's reset at 4) to check if my fatigue has gone away. At least we can either rule out Leve Reset as the global gathering fatigue reset, or perhaps keep it alive.

I don't know if it is different for botany. I am starting to collect data so I can contribute to the examination of the gathering fatigue system. My misses dramatically increased after about 150 successful gather.

First 132 harvest attempts I had a 27% miss rate.
Next 139 harvest attempts I had a 47% miss rate.

There was a point where the attempts where failing a lot. However, it is a pain in the butt to get the proper logs to be able to figure out exactly when that happen.

It was 20 extra failed attempts for hour 2. I did not have the foresight tor realize when those extra failed attempts started happening. I suppose the next time I go out and gather Ill have this in mind and try to figure it out.

It should of been a full two days between my gatherings when I collected my first set of data. Ill be sure to do no gathering between my first set and my second. Im interested to see if during my first hour of gathering will have the same miss rate. I will also be taking note of exactly how many successful gather attempts there where during the second hour before I went beyond what would be considered the normal fail rate. It is kind of odd trying to figure this out with harvesting since there is always instant fail probability.

DATE: 02/23/11 Wednesday
TIME: 5:30am - 7:20am (PST)
LOCATION: Grade 5 waters of the Coerthas River south of Riversmeet.
DEPTH: -1
BAIT: Wildfowl Fly

Begining today at 5:30am I was able to fish for just under 2 hours (1 hour 10 mins shorter than last night at full reset) and had 88 sucessful reel ins before I hit the fatigue wall. I attempted 10 additional casts, bites and reels to confirm it was fatigue. Sure enough 10 for 10 were Instant Fails on the Jigs.

In all I caught:

8x Crayfish
3x Crayfish +1
1x Crayfish +3

40x Crimson Crayfish
11x Crimson Crayfish +1
2x Crimson Crayfish +2
2x Crimson Crayfish +3

28x Velodyna Carp
1x Velodyna Carp +1
3x Velodyna Carp +2

32x Yugr'am Salmon
3x Yugr'am Salmon +1
4x Yugr'am Salmon +2
1x Yugr'am Salmon +3

22x Northern Pike
6x Northern Pike +1
1x Northern Pike +3

For a grand total of: 168 fish caught

NOTES:
From phase 2 results we can extrapolate the following:

* Leve reset does NOT fully reset Gathering Fatigue.
* The passage of time does partially refresh your fatigue.

In speaking about time here are a few numbers from these 2 phases so far:

* I began fishing at 5:30pm for phase 1, I began fishing at 5:30am for phase 2. The passage of 12 hours from Start to Start. 12 hours seems to have 'refreshed' about 1/2 of my fishing fatigue (88 vs. 167) with a slight variance.

* From the end of Phase 1 (8:30pm) [NOTE: I _DID_ chance class and gain skill in it post phase 1 and didn't not return to fishing class till start of phase 2]. to the Begining of Phase 2 (5:30am) was the passage of 9 hours. (See previous bullet point for refresh amount).

So now phase 3 will begin around 6pm tonight (giving a full 24 hours from the END of the initial Phase 1). That's just over 10 hours from the end of Phase 2. I've a few thoughts on these reset rates and a few numbers to toss out some theory:

A) If we go from [START] to [START] (12 hours) from the above results, then it seems like a 'full refresh' would be on a 24 hour timer from your initial Sucess. Seeing as how 12 hours granted 1/2 refresh.

B) If we go from [END] to [START] (9 hours) from the above results, then it seem like a 'full refresh' would be on a 18 hour timer from your final Sucess of your initial session. Seeing as how 9 hours granted 1/2 refresh.

C) Refresh could be scaled (ie. Each hour/min grants a fixed % of refresh). In all honestly, this is likely the case (as I doubt it's tiered in a stair step fashion...ie. you get 20 attempts for every hour you wait etc. Its more likely based on mins and that you recover 1 sucess on some unit of time.)

When calculating on a scaled approach, we then have a LOT of factors to consider. This would be a very complex and difficult calculation to do as during (in phase 1) gathering time is passing to the tune of several hours. This would mean that you would be depletating from your avilable pool of sucesses while at the same time refreshing said pool. IF this does prove to be the case, we _could_ then reason fairly surely that DEPLETION is FASTER than REGENERATION (Since ovbiously we hit a wall).

Going from [START] to [START] using the scaled calculations we would need to extrapolate the correct ration of sucesses_added_to_pool over the set_period_of_time.

The mathmatics required to do this escape me for the moment (its right there at the front of my mind, but I need to doodle on some paper to try and get it right to solve for them). So i'll update this later when i have some numbers for review.

UNTIL that time, lets just hope there is a 'hard reset' that happens after X amount of time (rendering the scaled calculations not _as_ important but easier for most gatherer's to plan their day by. I get the feeling most people if given the choice of:

A) Once you hit fatigue, you need to wait <X period of time> before you can fully gather again.

B) From your BASE availabe sucesses (capped) at full refresh, you regain 1 sucess over <X period of time>.

I think most people would just like to know A) (easier to plan your day in Eorzea around for sure).

Edited by user Wednesday, February 23, 2011 10:08:38 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

========================================
FATIGUE - Thoeries from Results of Tests
========================================
Lets begin with a few terms for clarification as they will be used during my attempts to explain my results and extrapolate some theories.

[CAP]
The full completly fatigue-refreshed number of sucessful gathering actions you can complete before hitting fatigue.

[FAT]
Fatigue. The 'wall' gatherers hit when doing extensive gathering over long periods of time. The depletion of the available actions in the players pool to 0, resulting in high likelyhood of instant failue during gathering.

[POOL]
The players current number of available sucessful gathering actions remaining to them.


At the moment, there are a lot of unknowns still left in this process. Not everything is 'clean cut' nor fully understood. One set of data from 1 extended test does not prove anything. Please believe, I do NOT think that the theories I present in this post are 100% the truth. However, it is what MY information tells me, and I hope further discussion and testing sessions will aid in further figuring out the exact nature of this game mechanic. (As it sits, my luck will be that the next "Ask the Dev's" will clearly explain this system rendering my tests a little pointless...but at least then we'd have an answer and that's all I'm looking for :D)

==================
THE NUMBERS
==================

Phase 1:
[CAP] + 3hours = 167 Sucesses
5:30pm to 8:30pm Day 1


Phase 2:
9hours + 2hours = 88 Sucesses
5:30am to 7:20pm Day 2


Phase 3:
Over 13 hours from Last Fatigue = 164 Sucesses
Over 24 hours from Initial Fatigue passed.
9:00pm to 12:00am Day 2


==================
THEORIES
==================

THEORY 1: The Scaled Rgeneration

Taking the near identical numbers from Phase 1 and Phase 3, AND ASSUMING that to totally refresh your [CAP] 12 hours needs to pass from your LAST [FAT]. If that proves to be the case, then:

* [CAP] = 132 Sucessful Gathers
* Every hour you regain 11 Gathers to your [POOL]

This can be seen by doing the following:

165 Sucesses (averaged/rounded from Phase 1 and Phase 2) / 15 hours (12 hours + 3 Active hours spent Gathering) = 11. That means 33 were added to the [POOL] during the testing. 165 - 33 = 132 [CAP].

[CAP] = 132 is also proved (assuming prior assumptions are true) by seeing that in Phase 1, over 48 hours had passed before I started, and that in phase 3, over 13 hours had passed since last hitting [FAT] (an hour over the 12) and it didn't increase over that.

PROBLEMS W/ THEORY:

Plainly put, Phase 2. In keeping with my math, it would stand to reason that in the 9 hours that passed + the 2 spend gathering (11) that I should have had 121 sucessful gathers. I only got 88 before hitting [FAT] (a difference of 33). [SIDE NOTE: see how this stupid '11' and multiple/division of it cloud the issue? ;p ]

This is pretty much the reason why I 'debunk' this current theory. While the numbers work out to be 'close', about the only things I can 'safely' conclude from all of this are:

* If there is a 'regeneration' to your [POOL], then to reach full [CAP] at least 12 hours needs to pass (Possibly 13...since there _was_ 13.5 hours passing from end of phase 2 to begining of phase 3 AND there was over 13.5 hours that had passed before the begining of Phase 1)

* If there is a 'HARD' refresh (ie. Regardless of 'passive' time-lapse [POOL] regeneration once X amount of time has passes irl you will be granded FULL [CAP]) then it is likely 24 hours from when you INITIALLY began using from your [POOL] from fully rested. Tested would be needed to verify (LOT OF WORK) as to difinitivly prove this, you'd need to:

- Start gather (say Noon) and hit [FAT].
- Periodically throughout the day (ever 2 hours or so) re-hit [FAT] (should only take a little while).
- Then a little after Noon on the 2nd day, see if you are at full [CAP] or just a little from passive regeneration.


THEORY 2: Non-linear Regeneration

They theory for this combines elements from Theory 1, but also accounts for the discrepency for Phase 2. In that, perhaps regeneration is 'expotential' rather than 'linear'. Theory 1 tries to find a fixed amount re-added to your [POOL] over a period of time. This theory suggests that perhaps some undetermined scale of ever increasing amount of attempts gets added to your [POOL] starting off slow, then getting larger the longer you are away from it.

EXAMPLE:

Phase 2- Was away for 9 hours before I began. Over 2 hours (11 in total) I got 88 attempts. Some non-linear scale granded me this.

Phase 3- Was away for 13 hours before I begab. Over 3 hours (16 in total) i got my prior established [CAP] amount + whatever was added to my [POOL] while activly gathering.

In phase 2, since a shorter period of time passed, I was given a smaller about into my [POOL]...somthing along the lines of 1 ever 15 mins for a while, then 2, then 3 etc. (NOTE: NOT real time/amounts, just pretend).

In phase 3, since I waited longer, i was able to surpass the prior amount and reach [CAP] since the expotential increase continued, helping me reach said [CAP] faster.

If this actually is the case (I believe highly likely), then the ability to solve for that expotential increase is beyond my mathmatic skills (NOTE: I could do the math, I just don't have any good formulas that seem to solve for it OR i don't have the right data to compile it) but is likely not very important.


FINAL THOUGHTS FOR NOW:

As a grinder of all gatherer/crafter/DoW, I tend to like to plan my days (cause i'm crazy i'm sure) around what i DONT have in Surplus at the moment (don't like loosing SP cause I want to grind it out). I would wager most gatherer's arn't too concerned (once they've hit [FAT]) how many they can get back if they wait X amount of time. Rather, more along the lines of "How long do i have to wait before I am back to full [CAP]?".

At the moment, I believe full [CAP] happens at atleast 12 hours since you hit [FAT] (regardless of what method is used to calculate this).

I encourage all gatherers though to please test this to some capacity. On a gathering class that you _know_ is at full [CAP] (hasn't been touched in a while), get out there and hit [FAT]. Wait 12-13 hours and do it again. Then compare the Sucessful Actions (# of items) and see if they are the same. If so, then BOOM...for now, we have our reset period.

Edited by user Thursday, February 24, 2011 11:12:12 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

So for my first set of data without much harvesting.
My first auto fail was on attempt 139.
I had 6 failed attempts and 132 successes.
Total items gathered, 387.
Time spent gathering, 1 hour 36 minutes.

It would seem for botany the magic number for when fatigue kicks in is somewhere between 130-140 successful gathers.

I'm going to be testing mining shortly see if the magic number is the same. Also, I am thinking about testing the refresh time of the pool. From my last gather how much time do you think I should wait before I go test again for fatigue? Think the suggestion of 2 hours will hold? What if I just get lucky and don't hit a instant fail for awhile?

Also, I am not sure if this has been mentioned anywhere. While in fatigue if you don't get a instant fail then you get X amount of less swings to gather the item. Items that I use to get 4 swings at got lowered down to 3 swing when first hitting fatigue and then down to 2 swings about 35ish gathers later. I am assuming the probability of instant fail also increases in this fashion. By how much I am not sure. I also harvest so that was throwing off my numbers. So for mining I am going to do off hand gathering.